The High Road Papers - Latest Comments in Towing Scam. The Day After

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Staten Island Real Estate — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:25:16 -0000

I would have been pissed it that happened too me. That small sign is obviously a trap, to bait people into parking. I am sure the owner of the lot gets a cut under the table.

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Paco McDooby — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 02:23:17 -0000

Another important thing to keep in mind when dealing with towing companies in Arizona is that if you are the owner of the car, they have absolutely no right to hold your car if it was towed without your permission. They cannot demand payment on the spot as a condition to releasing the vehicle. If they do, it's theft. The towing company's can try to sue the person who parked the car for the towing charge, but the towing company cannot use the car itself as leverage.

The Arizona Court of Appeals has said that IF THE SIGNAGE REQUIREMENTS ARE MET, then the tow company's recovery (if any) is against the PARKING VIOLATOR, as opposed to the vehicle owner. "A sign that complies with A.R.S. 9-499.05 creates a legally binding contract between the towing company and the PARKING VIOLATOR which would permit a towing company to seek relief for its contractual damages." Adage Towing & Recovery, Inc. v. City of Tucson, 187 Ariz. 396, 398, 930 P.2d 473, 475 (App. 1996).

Regardless of who the alleged parking violator is, the tow company MUST release the car to the owner. When the Arizona Supreme Court addressed this issue, it held that a towing company commits theft when it tows a car that was parked on private property without the property owner's permission and then refuses to release the car to the car's owner.

"According to the undisputed facts, the petitioner [a towing company], without lawful authority, knowingly controlled the property of another with the intent to restore it only upon payment of compensation. We believe the elements of the crime as specified under A.R.S. § 13-1801(2) and § 13-1802(A) have been satisfied, and that the petitioner may be charged with theft." Capson v. Superior Court of State of Ariz., In and For Maricopa County, 139 Ariz. 113, 116, 677 P.2d 276, 279 (1984).

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Paco McDooby — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 02:15:06 -0000

Also, keep in mind that the towing company has the burden of proving that they complies with all the signage requirements. The Arizona Court of Appeals, commenting on the statute posted above, has explicitly stated that if the signage requirements are not met, there can be NO RECOVERY for the towing company: "before a legally binding contract is created, the towing company obviously would have to establish that the signs complied with all elements of § 9-499.05(B), including the requirement that the signs be 'clearly visible and readable from any point within the parking area and at each entrance.' " Adage Towing & Recovery, Inc. v. City of Tucson, 187 Ariz. 396, 399 n.5, 930 P.2d 473, 476 (App. 1996).

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Paco McDooby — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 02:12:19 -0000

People are talking a lot about Tempe municipal law, but they also need to look at Arizona state law. It is possible to comply with Tempe municipal law while violating Arizona state law (and vice versa).

-------------------

ARS 9-499.05 states, in part, that:

B. The owner or agent of the owner of the private property shall be DEEMED TO HAVE GIVEN CONSENT TO UNRESTRICTED PARKING by the general public in any parking area of the private property UNLESS such parking area is posted with signs as prescribed by this subsection which are CLEARLY VISIBLE and READABLE from ANY POINT within the parking area and at each entrance.

-------------------

That means that if there exists any point in the parking lot at which a parking sign is not clearly readable, then the lot owner -- as a matter of law -- is deemed to have granted permission to park there. Tempe municipal law is wholly irrelevant to whether a lot owner meets the requirements of the state statute. In other words, even if a lot owner fully complies with the Tempe ordinance, the lot owner might still fail to meet the state statute.

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Phil Wax-Portland Real Estate — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:40:37 -0000

Dang, it is interesting to read all the comments-and I'd be "Joe" is either part of the tow truck company that scammed everyone in that lot or a tow truck driver somewhere else. Go get them, Jay, and good luck in bringing them down!

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Greg Ferguson — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 09:21:42 -0000

Jay,

You still have it! This has been one of the more entertaining posts in recent memory. I hope you can change a seemingly rotten system.

As an aside, in 1984 and 1985, I spent some time at the Motorola Mesa plant working on starting up the 256k DRAM (yep, I am old). The MOS 5 guys must have told me a dozen times "be careful when you park anywhere around ASU; they'll tow you in minutes." So, even back then, it was considered to be a "parking trap".

Regards.

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Charles@Las Vegas Real Estate — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:50:45 -0000

GO GET'EM Jay. Funny how they are using the 'law' to stick you with a ridiculous towing bill but don't adhere to it themselves. I wonder how much money that little lot generates for the towing company and how much of that the land owner gets.

<abbr></abbr><abbr>Charles´s last blog post..Las Vegas Housing Market: Foreclosures Down, Sales Up</abbr>

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Kate — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:28:01 -0000

This has been an incredible story and the comments interesting too.

Even if you take them to small claims court, please do so, and keep
us apprised of any new developments!

Follow the money....

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Gregory Bain — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:38:10 -0000

Dollar for donut (about what they cost on today's market) I would bet that the Monster Tow has a contract with the city of Tempe and it's police department for tow services. I am sure if you looked real hard you would find the connection with city council and or the "management" of the town and the company. And, it may very well be that the "lawyer" that owns the lot has connections with the town and its school district for legal services. It was good that you let everyone know about the scam, but it's just the way things work, Jay. Think bunnies and puppies ;-)

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Jason Humpal-Loveland Real Est — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:20:56 -0000

It is great to see you have brought so much attention to this-I can't believe (well, I can, but don't want to) that the tow driver dared you to sue them....go get them, Jay!

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Jay Thompson — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:07:11 -0000

A Real Lawyer -

I'd love to talk to you. Call me any time at 480-235-4447 or email me at jay@thompsonSrealty.com

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

A Real Lawyer — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:41:35 -0000

Unlike Joe, I'm a real lawyer, and I absolutely hate towing companies. I've never met an honest one that played fairly. I'm considering taking a couple cases against Monster pro bono.

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Michael — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:40:05 -0000

Note to self:

Don't use "Joe" for any of my future legal needs. Surely he'll end up with the annoying ambulance chasers (P to the h - you know who you are).

Some people must get a lot of exercise jumping to conclusions. Sorry to hear of their fall. Oh well - another one bites the dust.

I'm not a religious man, but the following song came to my head today (choose your artist)...

"And the sign said ... everyone welcome come in, kneel down and pray. When they passed around the plate at the end of it all, I didn't have a penny to pay. So I got me a pen & a paper, and I made up my own little sign - it said thank you lord for thinkin' about me I'm alive and feelin' fine".

Onward to a new day - hope all Father's had a great day today !!

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Halifax Real Estate — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 14:59:56 -0000

Take them to task for the size of their sign. You obviousally have a case there. They can't continue to get away with this scam.

<abbr></abbr><abbr>Halifax Real Estate´s last blog post..A Rental Property Horror Story</abbr>

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Ali Bawor — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 22:42:12 -0000

Howdy Joe,

It's pretty clear that you work for the unnamed towing company. Oh, and I love the "law student" bit, it would be clever, except....why is a law student interested in this blog? Is it perhaps because you are somehow connected with the towing company who is catching a ton of flack from all angles?

I've only ever encountered persons who cry "libel" and "slander" to be those whose reputation is already tarnished to the point where any additional hits just bury them deeper into the rut they got themselves into with their own shady business practices. Said practices are fantastic for your bottom line in the short term, but as you're now finding out (probably because you're having trouble procuring towing contracts with corps and public entities) that it is VERY troublesome for the long-term financial health of your company. In short, yes, you can screw people today and fill your pockets with their fresh ATM cash, but you'll find that you catch more bees with honey than vinegar. People talk, and I'm sure you've probably towed someone's car who is in a position to close doors for you that you haven't even attempted to open yet.

In this case, its likely that this incident is like throwing a matchstick into a forest fire, with all that I've heard about your company, its only really pulling a magnifying glass to your unethical practices.

Btw, if you were really a law student you would know that libel and slander are extremely difficult to prosecute when the offended party has allowed prior negative public statements to go uncontested. The court assumes that the offending remarks/speech are true if they go uncontested, or if, at the very least, there is no PR effort to combat the claims. FACT: Posting comments on a blog under a pseudonym is not a PR move, its bad business.

<abbr></abbr><abbr>Ali Bawor´s last blog post..Pure Romance Party (5/5) on Yelp</abbr>

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Jay Thompson — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 19:14:16 -0000

Joe -

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion. However, I'd like to counter a few things you said in your last comment.

"as you said in your own original post there were signs that met the code as well as others that did not"

Please read with a more critical eye Joe. As a law student, that's a good skill to have. There were not signs (plural) that met code. There was one sign, presented edge on to the entrance and approximately 160 feet from said entrance that met code.

"Maybe someone upset other than yourself tore down the signs who knows."

Sure, someone upset could have pulled the sticker off the electrical box. That happening at the same time that new signs meeting code were installed is a quite a remarkable coincidence.

"The city code does not indicate how many signs are needed just that they be visible at the entrance. one entrance was signed properly and one was missing, however extra signs were visible. "

There was no tow warning sign visible at the entrance Joe. There is now. And again, "extra signs" were not visible.

"Not to mention the fact that you yourself said you ignored the completely visible NO PARKING sign posted above the very visible orange barricade."

Again, please read before you accuse me of something I never said. I did not say I ignored the no parking sign, please don't put words in my mouth. That sign appeared to me to be referring to no parking along the easement, not the lot. It is also not a tow warning sign. I got towed Joe, not issued a parking ticket as would have been appropriate with that sign.

"You chose to ignore or disregard the signs and park with your friends in spots that other hard working people had paid for."

I did not chose to ignore or disregard a sign I never saw.

"Do you also eat the sandwich in the company fridge with Betty”s name on it???"

What the hell?

"And yes slander and libel are two completely different terms but you run the risk of being guilty of both with these posts and a news, audible broadcast."

I slandered the towing company in the CBS video??? I didn't even mention their name. How you could slander someone without mentioning their name is beyond me. If they felt I libeled them in my posts, they are welcome to pursue that.

"For all anyone knows that was just a poor person who actually paid for their right to park on that lot."

Whatever Joe. When one of the tow truck drivers gets in and drives away in the last remaining car on the lot, I don't really care if he paid to park there or not. It was an incredibly deceptive practice.

"In my humble opinion you blame others when you make mistakes, and attempt to use those mistakes to get publicity for yourself."

You don't know me from Adam. "Getting publicity" is a ridiculous statement. I don't need "publicity" from writing about getting ripped off.

"I just hope some zealot like yourself buys a house from you and then finds some reason to blog about you in a “real estate scam”."

That will never happen Joe. I don't rip people off, I don't deceive people, and I follow every rule and regulation that my local, state and national associations require of me. In fact, I go well beyond those regulations in my ethics and business practices.

"Pay attention people this transparent little man, in my opinion will end up hurting you far more than he could ever help you."

So you accuse me of libel and then come here and call me a zealot, say I blame others, try to cause others harm, can't be trusted, and that I'll end up hurting people?

Do you see the irony in that?

"For me, checking in on your blog is a thing of the past."

That's not a problem Joe. You're welcome to read my posts or not. Have a nice life.

(And thanks Gregory)

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Gregory Bain — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:37:49 -0000

Ya ever notice that the anonymous Joe Blows of the world always accuse the guy who puts his full name, business address and telephone numbers along with countless other pieces of personal data out there of being the one who is untrustworthy?

great news telecast - thanks for posting. It looks like you have a lot of support, Jay. I just think you are still going to pay and the "joes" of the world are going to win. Tempe should fine the owner of the lot and the tow company, or, at least pay the tow of everyone that got scammed that night.

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Joe — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:58:33 -0000

Jay, I hate to argue but as you said in your own original post there were signs that met the code as well as others that did not, like you also said the Tempe police told you it was properly signed. Maybe someone upset other than yourself tore down the signs who knows. Maybe the tow company had to replace the signs that were torn down, by someone other than yourself of course. The city code does not indicate how many signs are needed just that they be visible at the entrance. one entrance was signed properly and one was missing, however extra signs were visible. That would be considered overkill on the lot. Not to mention the fact that you yourself said you ignored the completely visible NO PARKING sign posted above the very visible orange barricade. The point I see that no one is mentioning is that some people chose to pay for their ability to park on that lot and not be restricted as the signs say. You chose to ignore or disregard the signs and park with your friends in spots that other hard working people had paid for. Do you also eat the sandwich in the company fridge with Betty"s name on it??? And yes slander and libel are two completely different terms but you run the risk of being guilty of both with these posts and a news, audible broadcast. At first I was on your team about this issue based on what you had told us all, but after doing just a little investigating I see that you are just a sour grapes person with nothing better to do than try to cause others harm for your own mistakes. What is the license plate # of the "bait car" what did the tow employee look like? Go identify him at the tow company be more diligent in your accusations. For all anyone knows that was just a poor person who actually paid for their right to park on that lot. Unlike you and your friends of course. For me, checking in on your blog is a thing of the past. I had previously enjoyed some of your posts, but I think you are not the person that at least I had been led to believe you were. In my humble opinion you blame others when you make mistakes, and attempt to use those mistakes to get publicity for yourself. A person like that would not be trusted to sell me a soda at circle K much less a house. Good luck in whatever you do. I just hope some zealot like yourself buys a house from you and then finds some reason to blog about you in a "real estate scam". Pay attention people this transparent little man, in my opinion will end up hurting you far more than he could ever help you.

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Jay Thompson — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:20:28 -0000

Here is the video CBS 5 did:
http://www.kpho.com/video/1...

And here is the story:
http://www.kpho.com/news/19...

Since the night of the incident, the sign that did not meet City Code that the police and tow truck driver repeatedly referred to has been removed.

Signs meeting city code have been installed.

If the signage was acceptable the night we were towed, why was a sign removed and two more installed within 48 hours of the incident? To me, that is all but an admission of guilt.

Joe - I appreciate your thoughts and opinion. Even if the "bait car" was authorized to park there, it was a pretty sleazy thing to do. As the Tempe Councilmember said in the video, it doesn't meet the intent of the law and is disingenuous. The two employees at the impound lot were also not too pleased to hear about this aspect of the story.

By the way, slander is the spoken word, libel is written.

If the owner, property manager or whoever is in charge of this lot really didn't want people parking there, the solution is simple. Install signs that meet city code. That they didn't do this (until after the fact and quite possibly under pressure from the City of Tempe) speaks volumes.

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Joe — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 11:52:27 -0000

I don't work for any tow company but I am a law student and my thing is we all make mistakes. When I went by that lot I could see a lot of signs. But like Jay said that was during the day. A friend of mine who also is at ASU said that people can buy yearlong permission to park at that lot. So when I saw Jays pic that identified an illegally parked car, which also happened to be at the lot when I went by I checked, it had purchased from the proprietor a yearlong pass to park there. I just don't want to see anyone get sued for their choice of words. A quote bait car probably was allowed permission to park there through their purchase of a permit to do so. As far as I have seen Jay may have been slanderous is his choice of words, and I wouldn't want to see him sued for just trying to do what he feels is right. Having said that sorry to make anyone feel like I am a bad guy by just be rational in the situation people are entitled to their opinions feel free to say anything you want just don't tell the monster people you are doing it in a public forum or it may end up costing a lot more than the impound fee. A lawsuit is a tax write-off for them but for most people it is just a major pain in the butt. Joe

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Gregory Bain — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 08:40:02 -0000

I would love to know how the TV interview went. I have a feeling the lot suddenly had a lot of signage or the camera crew was blocked from getting any evidence shots for the viewing public. But, it's just a feeling. Hope it went well.

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Kyle Pearson — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:38:17 -0000

Does anybody else get the feeling that Wizard and Joe are from the tow company trying to rationalize their junk business?

But trust me, it's not just those guys. ASU is arguably worse. My friend left their car outside of a dorm in an empty parking spot (had a parking pass, just not the right lot) and it was towed within 10 minutes. You can't park at a meter and have it go over for more than a minute (literally) without a parking cop come up and write up a $100 ticket. That's why I plan to fly a helicopter to school from now on...

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Jay Thompson — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:34:43 -0000

Wizard and Joe -

I parked there because I didn't see any no parking signs. I'm a pretty decent, law-abiding guy. If I had seen a no-parking sign, I wouldn't have parked there.

That's the point. Despite what Joe says, there are no other signs in that lot other than what I reported in this post. And the signs that are there don't meet city code. The reason there is a code in the first place is so that signs are posted where people can see them.

Yes, you can see them in the picture. Keep in mind this was taken at 5:30 in the afternoon, not 9:30 at night. They are also highlighted in the photos. Trust me, there were no little red circles around them either time I was there. ;)

I'm not trying to get out of this because of the money. It's $135, it's not going to kill me (though I feel sorry for the college kids and others that can't afford it).

I am all for private property rights. I've posted on this very blog before that I'm not a fan of big government or regulation. But city codes for things like this are necessary for exactly this reason -- to prevent people from being taken advantage of and getting ripped off.

If the property owner doesn't want people parking there, the solution is simple. Put up proper signage that people can see. Put a chain across the entrance. That this isn't done leads to the reasonable conclusion that the owner wants people to park there.

Had I parked in a lot with legal signage, without a bait car, the most you would have heard from me would have been a "Crap, got towed, that sucks". This is different in my opinion.

Apparently I am not the only one with this opinion. I've talked to the Mayor of Tempe and a Tempe Councilmember and the Tempe Community Relations Manager. All are frustrated, all have stories about towing operators. The city council in fact recently passed laws to try to help stop these aggressive towing practices (source).

I'm a big boy. If I do something wrong or make a mistake, I'll pay my dues and move along.

But if I see someone deceiving people, ripping people off, setting up bait cars, marking a lot illegally and taking advantage of people, I'm going to call it out and try to get it stopped.

That's just how I roll.

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

Bryan — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 04:13:59 -0000

What a dirty tactic

<abbr></abbr><abbr>Bryan´s last blog post..Bank Foreclosed Homes For Sale</abbr>

Re: Towing Scam. The Day After

The Wizard — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 02:38:30 -0000

Well Jay from what i see you put a lot of effort in your investigation,But I am with Joe if there was other signs saying don't park there then why did you park there? I mean you can see the signs in your pictures and if you thought they was towing signs why did you choose to park there?
you said yourself that you could not afford to buy a lot there because the real estate in Tempe is to expensive for you, So why would you choose to park on a lot that you did not own? really what gives you the right to park there? why didn't you go and park at the business that you and your friends were going to visit? or maybe a lot where you could pay to park? myself i would choose 1 of those options either that or learn how to read the signs around me before getting towed not waiting till after the fact. myself i live in Ohio and i don't know the parking issues that you might have there. but if it would have been me well i would not have parked there. especially if i would have seen any kind of signs that said no parking or restricted parking . i would not have taken that chance myself. well good luck Jay