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<abbr></abbr><abbr>Roger Williams´s last blog post..Positive Customer Experience: True Food Kitchen and Exec Chef Michael Stebner</abbr>
This is something I'd probably tend to spend too much time on to make my point how rotten and crooked these folks are.
I think you are laying the case here for why the lot owner should be looked at in terms of what they have been doing.
Given the detail here and the case you laid out, maybe it's time to call Tempe PD and have them read through the post and tell you one way or the other if they feel you are correct.
Perhaps you can file a police report for something to do with wrongful towing or possession of your vehicle?
David Lorti
And if they have any interest in tourism their cops need to start watching for this abuse activity by tow companies and agressively going after the tow companies. These guys should get their license revoked.
You say you're not a lawyer... yet you do an excellent job laying out your case.
The only thing you seem to be missing would be video, possibly a point-of-view as a driver approaches and enters the lot. But I'm sure you could get that with your ever-present Flip, if you don't have it already!
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Logic and reason do not account for why things are the way they are, only someone's interpretation of logic and reason.
Based on the obvious details you've shared - if it were me, I'd let them attack with their "we'll destroy your credit...BS". You'll spend WAY more time trying to prove their logic and reason support changes for future parking perps.
When all is said and done - the majority of perps who park at this location are college kids anyway, and really...what credit rating do they have to destroy?
IMHO - changing the world "one parking lot at a time" isn't deserving of the principle infusion being attempted. Just my opinion, my car is in my garage all safe and sound. :)
Nice work Jay. Apparently, the towing company picked the wrong dude to tow. I would imagine scores (hundreds) of folks are entitled to some towing fee refunds.
<abbr></abbr><abbr>Colleen´s last blog post..Kennewick WA Homes for Sale</abbr>
I'd love to buy that lot and just charge a reasonable fee for parking. This would allow me to spend a lot of time on the beach drinking cocktails out of coconuts.
This is prime real estate. I'm almost afraid to figure out the market value of a lot at Mill & 7th Street. But I don't need to calculate it to know I can't afford it.
Regarding your legal experience with towing... I can see how proving damage would be difficult. I don't think it's difficult to prove signage doesn't meet very specific requirements outlined in the city code.
Of course I didn't think it was all that difficult to prove that OJ butchered Ron and Nicole either...
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An excellent question!
As you know, a significant portion of Tempe's existence is dependent on "tourists" (particularly the Mill Avenue area where this sordid mess took place). "Tourists" includes residents of neighboring communities. While it's true I cannot vote at the ballot box in Tempe, I can certainly vote with my feet and my wallet.
In other words, they should care. I've had some communication with City of Tempe officials (just got an email from the Mayor in fact) and they do appear to be concerned. Could just be lip service of course, but some do truly express concern and seem to be looking into this and other allegations.
It's all politics and bureaucracy though so believe me, I'm not holding my breath....
Hit 'em where it hurts...their pocketbook. If no one parks there, they can't tow=no $$$
Here is why the should care
http://siteanalytics.compete.com/phoenixrealest...
Jay's site gets 684% more traffic than the official tourism site for the city of Tempe.
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Perhaps phone calls to your local television/radio station(s) are in order. You've done a great job in presenting the details, and I'm sure your story is great fodder for a news channel or radio station.
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"I'm not a lawyer" ... Meeting CBS television crew... "Jay’s site gets 684% more traffic than the official tourism site for the city of Tempe." You. Rock!
Melanie Johnston - "Tempe Towing Avenger Guy" = priceless. Expect a twitter follow from me, I need more laughs like the ones you dish out!
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It is a scam... But what pissed me off the most was their guy who drives around the lot in a pick-up offering to take you to the impound lot. I told him to go F himself! (I was rather pissed-off at the time)
Good luck exposing these thieves.. it's the biggest con in town.
you said yourself that you could not afford to buy a lot there because the real estate in Tempe is to expensive for you, So why would you choose to park on a lot that you did not own? really what gives you the right to park there? why didn't you go and park at the business that you and your friends were going to visit? or maybe a lot where you could pay to park? myself i would choose 1 of those options either that or learn how to read the signs around me before getting towed not waiting till after the fact. myself i live in Ohio and i don't know the parking issues that you might have there. but if it would have been me well i would not have parked there. especially if i would have seen any kind of signs that said no parking or restricted parking . i would not have taken that chance myself. well good luck Jay
I parked there because I didn't see any no parking signs. I'm a pretty decent, law-abiding guy. If I had seen a no-parking sign, I wouldn't have parked there.
That's the point. Despite what Joe says, there are no other signs in that lot other than what I reported in this post. And the signs that are there don't meet city code. The reason there is a code in the first place is so that signs are posted where people can see them.
Yes, you can see them in the picture. Keep in mind this was taken at 5:30 in the afternoon, not 9:30 at night. They are also highlighted in the photos. Trust me, there were no little red circles around them either time I was there. ;)
I'm not trying to get out of this because of the money. It's $135, it's not going to kill me (though I feel sorry for the college kids and others that can't afford it).
I am all for private property rights. I've posted on this very blog before that I'm not a fan of big government or regulation. But city codes for things like this are necessary for exactly this reason -- to prevent people from being taken advantage of and getting ripped off.
If the property owner doesn't want people parking there, the solution is simple. Put up proper signage that people can see. Put a chain across the entrance. That this isn't done leads to the reasonable conclusion that the owner wants people to park there.
Had I parked in a lot with legal signage, without a bait car, the most you would have heard from me would have been a "Crap, got towed, that sucks". This is different in my opinion.
Apparently I am not the only one with this opinion. I've talked to the Mayor of Tempe and a Tempe Councilmember and the Tempe Community Relations Manager. All are frustrated, all have stories about towing operators. The city council in fact recently passed laws to try to help stop these aggressive towing practices (source).
I'm a big boy. If I do something wrong or make a mistake, I'll pay my dues and move along.
But if I see someone deceiving people, ripping people off, setting up bait cars, marking a lot illegally and taking advantage of people, I'm going to call it out and try to get it stopped.
That's just how I roll.
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But trust me, it's not just those guys. ASU is arguably worse. My friend left their car outside of a dorm in an empty parking spot (had a parking pass, just not the right lot) and it was towed within 10 minutes. You can't park at a meter and have it go over for more than a minute (literally) without a parking cop come up and write up a $100 ticket. That's why I plan to fly a helicopter to school from now on...
http://www.kpho.com/video/19809165/index.html
And here is the story:
http://www.kpho.com/news/19807691/detail.html
Since the night of the incident, the sign that did not meet City Code that the police and tow truck driver repeatedly referred to has been removed.
Signs meeting city code have been installed.
If the signage was acceptable the night we were towed, why was a sign removed and two more installed within 48 hours of the incident? To me, that is all but an admission of guilt.
Joe - I appreciate your thoughts and opinion. Even if the "bait car" was authorized to park there, it was a pretty sleazy thing to do. As the Tempe Councilmember said in the video, it doesn't meet the intent of the law and is disingenuous. The two employees at the impound lot were also not too pleased to hear about this aspect of the story.
By the way, slander is the spoken word, libel is written.
If the owner, property manager or whoever is in charge of this lot really didn't want people parking there, the solution is simple. Install signs that meet city code. That they didn't do this (until after the fact and quite possibly under pressure from the City of Tempe) speaks volumes.
great news telecast - thanks for posting. It looks like you have a lot of support, Jay. I just think you are still going to pay and the "joes" of the world are going to win. Tempe should fine the owner of the lot and the tow company, or, at least pay the tow of everyone that got scammed that night.
You are certainly entitled to your own opinion. However, I'd like to counter a few things you said in your last comment.
"as you said in your own original post there were signs that met the code as well as others that did not"
Please read with a more critical eye Joe. As a law student, that's a good skill to have. There were not signs (plural) that met code. There was one sign, presented edge on to the entrance and approximately 160 feet from said entrance that met code.
"Maybe someone upset other than yourself tore down the signs who knows."
Sure, someone upset could have pulled the sticker off the electrical box. That happening at the same time that new signs meeting code were installed is a quite a remarkable coincidence.
"The city code does not indicate how many signs are needed just that they be visible at the entrance. one entrance was signed properly and one was missing, however extra signs were visible. "
There was no tow warning sign visible at the entrance Joe. There is now. And again, "extra signs" were not visible.
"Not to mention the fact that you yourself said you ignored the completely visible NO PARKING sign posted above the very visible orange barricade."
Again, please read before you accuse me of something I never said. I did not say I ignored the no parking sign, please don't put words in my mouth. That sign appeared to me to be referring to no parking along the easement, not the lot. It is also not a tow warning sign. I got towed Joe, not issued a parking ticket as would have been appropriate with that sign.
"You chose to ignore or disregard the signs and park with your friends in spots that other hard working people had paid for."
I did not chose to ignore or disregard a sign I never saw.
"Do you also eat the sandwich in the company fridge with Betty”s name on it???"
What the hell?
"And yes slander and libel are two completely different terms but you run the risk of being guilty of both with these posts and a news, audible broadcast."
I slandered the towing company in the CBS video??? I didn't even mention their name. How you could slander someone without mentioning their name is beyond me. If they felt I libeled them in my posts, they are welcome to pursue that.
"For all anyone knows that was just a poor person who actually paid for their right to park on that lot."
Whatever Joe. When one of the tow truck drivers gets in and drives away in the last remaining car on the lot, I don't really care if he paid to park there or not. It was an incredibly deceptive practice.
"In my humble opinion you blame others when you make mistakes, and attempt to use those mistakes to get publicity for yourself."
You don't know me from Adam. "Getting publicity" is a ridiculous statement. I don't need "publicity" from writing about getting ripped off.
"I just hope some zealot like yourself buys a house from you and then finds some reason to blog about you in a “real estate scam”."
That will never happen Joe. I don't rip people off, I don't deceive people, and I follow every rule and regulation that my local, state and national associations require of me. In fact, I go well beyond those regulations in my ethics and business practices.
"Pay attention people this transparent little man, in my opinion will end up hurting you far more than he could ever help you."
So you accuse me of libel and then come here and call me a zealot, say I blame others, try to cause others harm, can't be trusted, and that I'll end up hurting people?
Do you see the irony in that?
"For me, checking in on your blog is a thing of the past."
That's not a problem Joe. You're welcome to read my posts or not. Have a nice life.
(And thanks Gregory)
It's pretty clear that you work for the unnamed towing company. Oh, and I love the "law student" bit, it would be clever, except....why is a law student interested in this blog? Is it perhaps because you are somehow connected with the towing company who is catching a ton of flack from all angles?
I've only ever encountered persons who cry "libel" and "slander" to be those whose reputation is already tarnished to the point where any additional hits just bury them deeper into the rut they got themselves into with their own shady business practices. Said practices are fantastic for your bottom line in the short term, but as you're now finding out (probably because you're having trouble procuring towing contracts with corps and public entities) that it is VERY troublesome for the long-term financial health of your company. In short, yes, you can screw people today and fill your pockets with their fresh ATM cash, but you'll find that you catch more bees with honey than vinegar. People talk, and I'm sure you've probably towed someone's car who is in a position to close doors for you that you haven't even attempted to open yet.
In this case, its likely that this incident is like throwing a matchstick into a forest fire, with all that I've heard about your company, its only really pulling a magnifying glass to your unethical practices.
Btw, if you were really a law student you would know that libel and slander are extremely difficult to prosecute when the offended party has allowed prior negative public statements to go uncontested. The court assumes that the offending remarks/speech are true if they go uncontested, or if, at the very least, there is no PR effort to combat the claims. FACT: Posting comments on a blog under a pseudonym is not a PR move, its bad business.
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Don't use "Joe" for any of my future legal needs. Surely he'll end up with the annoying ambulance chasers (P to the h - you know who you are).
Some people must get a lot of exercise jumping to conclusions. Sorry to hear of their fall. Oh well - another one bites the dust.
I'm not a religious man, but the following song came to my head today (choose your artist)...
"And the sign said ... everyone welcome come in, kneel down and pray. When they passed around the plate at the end of it all, I didn't have a penny to pay. So I got me a pen & a paper, and I made up my own little sign - it said thank you lord for thinkin' about me I'm alive and feelin' fine".
Onward to a new day - hope all Father's had a great day today !!
I'd love to talk to you. Call me any time at 480-235-4447 or email me at jay@thompsonSrealty.com
Even if you take them to small claims court, please do so, and keep
us apprised of any new developments!
Follow the money....
<abbr></abbr><abbr>Charles´s last blog post..Las Vegas Housing Market: Foreclosures Down, Sales Up</abbr>
You still have it! This has been one of the more entertaining posts in recent memory. I hope you can change a seemingly rotten system.
As an aside, in 1984 and 1985, I spent some time at the Motorola Mesa plant working on starting up the 256k DRAM (yep, I am old). The MOS 5 guys must have told me a dozen times "be careful when you park anywhere around ASU; they'll tow you in minutes." So, even back then, it was considered to be a "parking trap".
Regards.
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ARS 9-499.05 states, in part, that:
B. The owner or agent of the owner of the private property shall be DEEMED TO HAVE GIVEN CONSENT TO UNRESTRICTED PARKING by the general public in any parking area of the private property UNLESS such parking area is posted with signs as prescribed by this subsection which are CLEARLY VISIBLE and READABLE from ANY POINT within the parking area and at each entrance.
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That means that if there exists any point in the parking lot at which a parking sign is not clearly readable, then the lot owner -- as a matter of law -- is deemed to have granted permission to park there. Tempe municipal law is wholly irrelevant to whether a lot owner meets the requirements of the state statute. In other words, even if a lot owner fully complies with the Tempe ordinance, the lot owner might still fail to meet the state statute.
The Arizona Court of Appeals has said that IF THE SIGNAGE REQUIREMENTS ARE MET, then the tow company's recovery (if any) is against the PARKING VIOLATOR, as opposed to the vehicle owner. "A sign that complies with A.R.S. 9-499.05 creates a legally binding contract between the towing company and the PARKING VIOLATOR which would permit a towing company to seek relief for its contractual damages." Adage Towing & Recovery, Inc. v. City of Tucson, 187 Ariz. 396, 398, 930 P.2d 473, 475 (App. 1996).
Regardless of who the alleged parking violator is, the tow company MUST release the car to the owner. When the Arizona Supreme Court addressed this issue, it held that a towing company commits theft when it tows a car that was parked on private property without the property owner's permission and then refuses to release the car to the car's owner.
"According to the undisputed facts, the petitioner [a towing company], without lawful authority, knowingly controlled the property of another with the intent to restore it only upon payment of compensation. We believe the elements of the crime as specified under A.R.S. § 13-1801(2) and § 13-1802(A) have been satisfied, and that the petitioner may be charged with theft." Capson v. Superior Court of State of Ariz., In and For Maricopa County, 139 Ariz. 113, 116, 677 P.2d 276, 279 (1984).