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Good luck getting your vehicles tomorrow morning and be sure to raise a query with the mayor. I'm sure they have plenty of complaints about the companies already and seeing as the mayor JUST spoke highly of Tempe it'd be perfect timing to prove one of the many major issues Tempe has.
Keep us filled in.
One of the keys to all that "Legality" is indeed whether the tow truck driver does park there, which would indeed bait others to park there. There would be no other reason for the driver to park there than to give others an immediate sense of "it's alright, c'mon in."
That same Tempe code you cite also pluralizes "signs" and mentions "clearly visible and readable from a distance of fifty (50) feet away and at all points of entry.
Not having viewed it, it's unclear whether there's just the one entrance - but it sounds like it's much more open access from the description. If so, that would reasonably (a key word) require more than one sign, according to the code.
The sign already has one potential error - the time when vehicles can be collected. It could easily have more.
Lastly, there's the point of the city issuing a business license, which it might renew every year or every 3 or 5 years. If the company's sole purpose of existence - or its greatest revenue stream - is collection of towing fees from its own vacant lost, that's not a business in any sense of the term. Cities can and do refuse business licenses for less.
I'll mention some or all of these points in my letter to the mayor, as when you first tweeted about this that juxtaposition of the mayor wanting Ignite Tempe instead of Ignite Phoenix came to mind and I mentioned it then.
Good luck tomorrow, that is later today, at 8, no 9, no ??
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And here is a little nugget I find very interesting. That Tempe City Code section 32-6(a)(5) says "Each sign shall state, 'Tempe City Code, Section 32-6'.
Not "should" state, shall state.
When I look at the closeup pic of the sign, I see Glendale, Phoenix, Mesa, Scottsdale, Peoria, Gilbert and Chandler. But damned if I can find Tempe there....
Great post! What a shame that visitors have to experience such a nightmare.
You did not mention how much it cost you to get home.
My daughter, an ASU student was towed in a similar situation in less than 5 minutes! The tow trucks just sit and wait for you.
I have seen news reports on bad towing practices in Tempe before, but this one takes the cake.
Maybe you and Steve should volunteer a couple of hours of your time and stand on the public sidewalk to warn people.
Joe and I are reading this and he's not as 'proper' as I am. He wants to kick some ass!
Hmm, how about a little reverse strategy. Someone remove the sticker, than stage a dozen or so parked cars (sacrificial lambs). I wonder how much it would cost Monster Impound & Recovery to pay damages for improperly towing vehicles.
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These people should be ashamed.
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So unfortunate that the new laws (or are they just rules, not sure) in Tempe don't go into effect until the end of the month.
You and some of the people that have left comments make several other EXCELLENT points. ( about signage etc)
I am sure the City of Tempe will hear from many people concerning this questionable prictice.
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I tell you, walking out of La Bocca and seeing my car up on the tow truck's life was certainly not a pleasant sight at 11pm at night.
FYI, that sign, is definitely not 12" x 18". I'd estimate it is closer to 6" x 12" or roughly 50% smaller than the sign ordinance requires.
From Ignite, I may have been the first person to park at the lot. I parked right next to the bait vehicle, in between painted lines on asphalt, which, late at night, looked like a perfectly normal and legal place to park. On what appeared to be an easement road connecting several businesses together, there was a standard circular "no parking" sign, with an arrow pointing into the lot. This signed looked to be bent or damaged, and I read it to mean, no parking along the easement road . The normal "Private Property - No Parking" signs that we are all familiar with were certainly not visible, nor indeed present. And yes, this entire lot seemed to be very much a clear scam by the lot owner his/her towing company and quite probably the taxi companies.
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Please follow up with comments as I would be interested in knowing how all this turns out. I live downtown Tempe and deals with these tow truck a$$ holes regularly and threatened often.
Good luck!
<abbr></abbr><abbr>Mike M´s last blog post..preDevCamp - June 13th..or..</abbr>
Sec. 32-5. Authority to tow.
It shall be unlawful for a private towing carrier to tow or transport a motor vehicle from private property without the permission of the owner or operator of the vehicle unless such private towing carrier receives a request from a law enforcement agency or the express written permission from the owner of the property or the agent of the owner, who has complied with requirements of this section. The owner or the owner’s agent shall either sign each towing order or authorize the tow by a written contract which is valid for a specific length of time. The private towing carrier may not act as the agent of the owner. A copy of the written contract shall be made readily available to the law enforcement agency upon request and include the owner’s or owner’s agent name and current telephone numbers.
(Code 1967, § 33A-5; Ord. No. 2006.77, 1-4-07)
If the 'staged' car was indeed an employee of Monster towing then this is a violation as well.
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Since you asked though, here's where I shop for hats: http://bigheadcaps.com/
I'll be contacting the people I know in Tempe gov't about this, and urge others to do the same: http://www.tempe.gov/elected
I'm sure someone is thinking, "Pay the $135 and shut up".
It's not the money, it's the principle of the thing. This is a rip-off. Period. If the owner of the lot didn't want people parking there the solution is simple. Install some prominent signage and/or string a chain across the entrance. Since this has not been done, the only logical conclusion that can be made is the owner wants people to park there and get towed.
For those following, I did recover my car this morning. As the "lady" last night wouldn't give me any information, I wasn't aware that they accepted cash only. They did release the car, but told me that if I didn't pay within two weeks I would be reported to credit bureaus and the resulting collection fees would "at least triple" the amount I owe.
Interestingly, they refused to give me a receipt -- which is in direct violation of Tempe City Code Section 32-7(f) - "A private towing carrier shall provide the claimant with a copy of the receipt and the private towing carrier’s billing and collection procedures."
Looking at that sign, I am hard-pressed to believe its width is 12 inches. As well, is it truly readable from 50 feet? I wouldn't be able to read it.
Perhaps you could measure it? It seems like this might be something to pursue in terms of violation of city ordinance on the part of Monster.
After all, can you be held liable for being towed when they are not within city guidelines as to being able to tow cars? If by chance they weren't, would all of the previous towings be subject to restitution.
Though I am skeptical here, you never know. Sorry to hear about this. It reminds me of the speed cameras on the freeways and the whole idea that it 'is for safety' and not to erase debt.
Dave
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A internet cafe business is located next to the lot. Employees told me if you have a sticker you are not towed. They also mentioned they know nothing about the towing. I noticed one car in the lot - it had a sticker with the towing company name on it.
According to Tempe PD, they have no information on any incidents last night at this parking lot.
http://www.tp10.com/2009/06/rip-tempe-arizona-m...
<abbr></abbr><abbr>Pete Kosednar´s last blog post..RIP: Tempe Arizona Mill Ave</abbr>
In a questionable location. And whether the towing notice signage meets city code is suspect.
"According to Tempe PD, they have no information on any incidents last night at this parking lot."
I'm assuming that's because they didn't "file a report". There were obviously police there, and one of the scam victims talked to them last night:
http://desertstandard.com/2009/06/17/scam-alert...
In addition, I got an email this morning from a Tempe Police Detective who handles towing issues for the department after this post was forwarded to him by the Tempe Police Public Relations Officer. We are currently playing phone tag.
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so very sorry this happened to you all after such a fun night. this makes me so mad, what a scam. for shame. :(
I was at Ignite #4 and missed the 2nd half because I was having a fun heart-to-heart conversation with Onnie Shekerjian, Tempe Councilmember. I forwarded your blog to her email with a nice note and also included Gabi's (Yelp) info in case the City wants to put out a spark before it becomes a blaze. She is a really fun and personable lady so I hope she will act qucikly and pull the license of said towing company.
Cheers!
Alison B.
While private property owners (and the property where people were towed is private) have a right to have people towed off their property, and the City has no right to stop them, that practice can only take place within the parameters the city sets. Recently we tightened the towing ordinances and will continue to ensure our rules are fair and followed.
It is such a shame that a great evening ended on such a sour note for some."
I just wanted to add that I did not intentionally exclude Ignite organizational people, I just don't know them yet since Ignite #4 was my first time out. The above response should be read through the politician's lens (they can't get as heated as we can because they have to run for re-election every once in a while). But, rest assured, this is quite strong language and I am certain that this one is on her radar and will be dealt with swiftly and appropriately.
First off, from my conversation with him, it sounds like it's actually the property manager that's responsible for calling them to tow. They don't patrol it, they just respond to calls. Apparently the property manager is rather inconsistent, sometimes renting the space out, other times patrolling his lots at time. He's the one instigating and the towing company takes the flack.
Secondly, when I told the employee about the suspected bait car, he was shocked and told me there was only supposed to one driver, and could be a bad situation for the driver if he'd brought someone with him. Said this was very suspect and would look into it.
Third, I'd keep in mind the extra parking sign on the east side of the lot. That may be the one that covers the legality of this area as a no-parking zone.
The guy at Monster was actually very understanding and kind, and it sounds like the tow truck driver, although doing his job, will be looked into. He also told me to avoid parking anywhere near eJoy and Jack in the Box to escape further towings.
Some companies don't realize that when you appeal to a common consumer (i.e. the Urban Outfitters consumer will generally also stop by American Apparel, that is why you will always find those two stores in close proximity to each other), and are slightly liberal with your parking policies, people will buy your overpriced drinks and greasy food, after they finish shopping. Think about this one: what if the old borders became a Changing Hands location? Do you think eJoy would want those people to stop by for a coffee afterwards? I hate when small business owners are such tightwads that they hinder their own earning potential so that they can make a cheap buck via kickbacks from towing companies. And if they complain that they have no parking to spare to non-patrons and they will loose business, I say to that - plenty of mill avenue businesses don't have private parking lots and they do just fine...why? because they compete by price and/or they have a superior product (which isn't hard when your competition is jack-in-the-box).
That was my morning marketing rant. I have my own marketing consulting firm and I like to babble on, so if anyone is interested in growing their biz....I'm just starting out, so get me while I'm cheap and making deals (by deal I mean commission only type stuff:-)
Also, I just got a very nice call from Tempe City Councilmember Onnie Shekerjian. She said that the city was looking into this matter and no one there was pleased with the events that took place last night. They are investigating some things and hope to be able to report something soon.
It's nice to see elected officials take "citizen concerns" seriously. Ms. Shekerjian even gave me her personal cell number, something she certainly didn't have to do.
The plot thickens! Dishonesty brings greed, greed brings stupidity. I wonder if you not only uncovered a scam, but tax evasion or similar.
<abbr></abbr><abbr>Colleen´s last blog post..Kennewick WA Homes for Sale</abbr>
The Tempe city government could have stopped this problem a zillion different ways years ago but they choose not to.
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Just a couple quick ideas. :)
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I have a choice as to where I spend my money. Mill Avenue is a joyless nightmare.
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The post is here:
http://www.phoenixrealestateguy.com/towing-scam...
Or starving homeless people
Please don't lash out at people because you got a call from a councilmember regarding your unethical business practices that violate city code. You are scared, and I understand, but you have a chance to make it right. Please ensure that the signage in all the lots you patrol is up to code. The lot in question is often used as overflow parking for special events in the Mill Avenue District. The only thing the Yelpers/Ignite Phoenix #4 people are guilty of is believeing that someone else had pulled some strings and got parking for them, most of the people who parked there did so because they saw cars they recognized parked there. Herd mentality, there's an element of instinct involved that is a common human mistake...so have a little heart for those whose wallets are a little lighter courtesy of you. That is all.
Sincerely,
Ali Bawor
Wrong. Completely and utterly incorrect. A lie, plain and simple.
"Come on people wake up this is very sad when a man can not take responsibility for his actions he screwed up."
Interesting statement coming from someone that can't even take responsibility for a blog comment, Mr. Anonymous.
I can admit when I screw up. I also know when I get ripped off and I know a scam when I see it.
"he had to at least spent 2 hours of his time taking pictures "
Look at the time stamps on the pictures in the follow up post. They were taken seven minutes apart. Where do you get this 2 hour thing from?
"Try writing about the Bad house loans that are out there.
Or starving homeless people"
There are over 1300 posts on this blog. Two have to do with towing crap. Many have to do with loans. None have to do with starving homeless people.
"and we would not all be sitting here writing about all this Towing Crap"
The most idiotic statement of all. I assume you meant "reading", not "writing". If you don't want to read about towing crap, don't. Move along.
The Tempe Police Department Public Relations Officer forwarded it to the detective in charge of towing. We've exchanged emails
A Tempe Councilmember called me yesterday.
The Tempe Community Relations Manager and I have exchanged emails.
The Mayor of Tempe called today.
The City of Tempe is very well aware of what happened. They have had long standing issues with these towing companies and "difficult" property owners (my words, not theirs).
I'm confident that they are doing what they can. The wheels of politics turn slowly. The city is concerned, and seems to care. A tricky balance with property owners rights.
As a former cop (and thank you for your service) I think you of all people would question a practice that includes improper signage and bait cars.
It's got nothing to do with being cheap. It's about principle. People get shafted and screwed by scams like this all the time, and it's ridiculous.
Keep on keepin' on! :)
Didn't you know there's an app-for-that?
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I just hope the tourists that also got their car towed was able to get it back that night. They ended up taking a cab back to the hotel.
I also want to mention that the manager of Jack in the Box lied to me. He said it was the city who employed the tow truck. The city hates this practice because it gives mill avenue a bad name.
Mill Ave is being rebuilt for tourism, they need to be able to protect their tourists.
I agre with Chuck though, I am not the bit surprised.
unlike other people I admitted to the guy that i was wrong for parking there, i understand that a parking spot has lines on it and if i park in a lot like i and u did and get towed thats my fault.
The whole lesson in this is that i learned my mistake and wont park there again these companies tow 1000's of cars a year but guess what tempe pd has cars towed as well a lot more than these companies do, but the difference is Tempe police is cut it on that.
thats why they dont like what the other companies do if this property was city owned a cop would have e called a tow truck and it would have been hauled away just the same.
just learn from your mistake reach down and grab a pair of balls take the shot to your ego and move on!
As a resident of another state, the Mississippi family owner may claim diversity of citizenship and have this case heard at the FEDERAL LEVEL and not the State level. I think the sign is clearly not visible from a distance of 50 feet unless you're using binoculars.
What a sham.